Svea's reply In the beginning, the whole dream about the horses reminded me of where the term "nightmare" came from. When a farmer's horse had a baby in the midde of the night they were called nightmares and they were dreaded. I wonder if there's any corralation to the nightmares she was having about the horse and the term nightmare. It seemed like in the dream she was trying to outrun death, and her stay in the hospital was one big nightmare, with her in and out on conciousness. The author did a great job showing the patriotism of the people during this time. Just that one scene with the man and Miranda when they were pushing her to buy the liberty bonds said a lot. At first I thought that this WAS WW11, but when the mystery disease was revealed to be influenza I guess it's during WW1. During the spanish influenza outbreak. One last thing this book reminds me of is my post-modern text, which deals a lot with happiness and knowing when your happy. Miranda faces this problem, not knowing if she's truly happy or not.
Miranda faces a lot of alienation and criticism for her diverse opinions about the war. When the person toward the end reads the poem, her and Adam see it as an oposing attack. Adam is her friend who is always on her side. Mr.Gibbons was quite the martinet with how he expressed his opinions on her writtings. He criticised even the most trivial grammatical error.He probably opposed her opinions and controling her work was how he took out that feeling. I really thought when Miranda got ill that it was a metaphor for when the war would go on and off and finally end. The war ended when her illness recovered. The coincidence brought out the metaphorical perception. Maybe war is illness to the world and its people and peace is good health. This story makes the most schmaltz metaphors.Very deep and sentimental is the author's philosophy. The story is almost like one of those deep poems that everyone feels so strongly about.
I especially liked how this was a classic that takes place in America. Most classic literature is from England, or European countiries because of some perpetuation from Shakespeare.
I like how Svea made the connection between the nightmare and Miranda's nightmare, I was thinking the same thing. I also guessed that the setting was placed during World War One because of the reference to "The War to End War" which refers to WWI. The way Miranda slips in and out of dream state definately makes it confusing, and sometimes I would have to go back and re-read a few pages to remember which state we were in. The title 'Pale Horse, Pale Rider' was referred to between Miranda and Adam as a song that the negroes would sing in the oil field, or while picking cotton. I know in the study guide it says that this is a reference to revelations, but I wonder if it might be more than that. The lyrics to the song, "Pale Horse, Pale Rider, 'done take my lover away!" might symbolize the love between Miranda and Adam, and how death (the pale rider) takes it away from them when Adam dies of Influenza. I find their relationship very important in the story.
At the end of the story Miranda says "No more war, no more plague, only the dazed silence that follows the ceasing of the heavy guns;..." This seems to be symbolizing how war always ends, but no one ever fully recovers from it's impact. No one can ever come back from the dead after war. I think alot of what this story is about is the effects of war and disease and death and how it can never be fully forgotten.
During Miranda's relapse, or that's what it appears to be, when she is having visions of this beautiful beach and these rolling waves I was kind of wondering what Porter was trying to show. It seems that Porter is showing how at peace Miranda is as she is nearly taken by death. Miranda 'desires nothing' and 'here it is always morning'. Then she is awaken and brought back to the pain of war and epidemic. It seems as if Miranda would rather face death then face the tragidies of war.
Very good story, one I would consider reading again:)
Hillary's Annotation: I agree with what Maria said about the war being an illness to the world and how it seems like a deep poem. At first it doesn't seem very deep but if you really read it you see just how deep it goes.
Also what Svea said about the nightmares is very interesting but I agree with what she said about the patriotism and how it really shines through. With the liberty bonds and the young soldiers wanting to go to war, also the other little things like wearing shoddy.
I thought this was a very interesting story, I like how Porter told the story half from Miranda's point of view and half from her dreams. Her dreams proved to be just as important to the story. However I did find it a little odd that once Miranda began to recover that the war stopped. But I suppose like Maria said it was like a metaphor showing that all would get better.
With all the problems of the war and the influenza outbreak it keeps the reader hooked seeing how Miranda will deal. I thought she handled herself well with the people shoving bonds at her and criticizing her work.
Overall I really liked Pale Horse, Pale Rider and wouldn't mind reading more like it.
Alycia did an excelling job at connecting simple details to form a more profound and deep message. She symbolised the pale rider as death. The song lyrics "done take my lover away", if you think real closely show how deep Miranda and Adam felt about each other.
I liked how Hillary summed up her annotations by describing how the theme can also be based from not only the love between Miranda nad Adam, or the war and illness, but the struggles and criticism Miranda faces as a writer and how she deals with them. Hillary discovered another theme idea that the author was probably trying to perceive.
Nikki’s Annotations: Svea’s connection about Miranda’s nightmares was really interesting, the dream made more sense to me after that. Also what Maria said about war being an illness and how it affects the health of people, it rang very true to me and even now, in the war on terror it’s true.
I like how Porter showed how patriotic people were, the young men going to war and the older men pushing for war bonds and talking about going to war. The women showed their patriotism by volunteering in the hospital and going to work outside of the home for the first time. The main point that I grabbed when I read this story was that life goes on, even through war, sickness and love. After the war had ended and Miranda was recovering from the Spanish Influenza she found out that Adam had died from the pandemic. Still, Miranda had to pick up the pieces of her life and so did everyone when the war ended and the pandemic ceased.
Overall, this story surprised me, or I surprised myself I guess because I really did enjoy reading it more than I thought I would.
As I said in my post earlier, I like how Svea connected Miranda's nightmares to the term nightmare and the horses. We all know Svea knows her mythology and other random tidbits of information. I also agree with how she mentioned that the author does an amazing job at showing the patriotism of the characters through how they hound Miranda about buying a bond.
Maria mentioned about how Miranda faces "alienation" and "critizism" about how she feels about war. The author shows through scenerios like, Miranda not buying a bond, or how she talks badly about the war and how she doesn't support it, to show Miranda's "diverse opinions" about the war, as Maria said in her post. I think this is a great topic to bring up because it shows the authors characterization throughout the story. Bravo Maria!
The issue of Liberty bonds in this story reminded me of a story that I read awhile ago. I Believe that it was called 'Hattie Big Sky' although i don't remember the author. In that story Hattie is a Pioneer in Montana, and like most pioneers a little hard on money. Like Miranda she was pressured to buy a Liberty Bond and was accused of being unpatriotic when she put it off because she couldn't afford it. So many bonds and funds were circulating at that time that many Americans were giving huge chunks of their salary to the war and war efforts, and many were left with barely any extra money. The American government needed money and it was an easy way for them to gain efficient funds so bonds were the answer. Bonds may have been the answer for the government but they were not the answer for society, people who didn't buy bonds were discriminated against and were seen as unpatriotic. Some people even saw them as equal to the Huns. Unfortunately this created what I call a fake Patriot. Not fake as in a person who feels nothing for their country, but fake as not having the best intentions. People who are doing their 'duty' to their 'country' by haggling others to give up money that they simply cannot. I feel that a true patriot would realize that these people are part of the country that they so 'love', and that there are more ways to show love for ones country than by dishing out money to support a war. The the study guide did say that the author had a direct relation to this story and that it was written about some of her experiences during the war; it makes me wonder if she also had trouble with Liberty Bonds.
In this story it also seemed as if Miranda's dreams were metaphorical. In her last 'dream' under the direct influence of the influenza I think that it had a very different and special meaning. I think that her calm perfect meadow where it was always morning and she was surrounded by all of those she loved and cared for represented her heaven. And that at that point that her care takers were losing her to death. I also think that the painful place full of stone, cold , and snow, signified her difficult journey back into the world of the living. Recognizing this allowed me to understand her reactions and feelings later in the book. It also gave more meaning to the way Miranda moved on with her life when she was ready to leave the hospital and go back to her life.
I think that what Maria said about Miranda's illness and the War being related and intertwined is so completely true. I didn't really see it when I read the book, but after I read her post I realized the coincidence, and there are no such thing as coincidences. I also thought that her comparison of war to illness was brilliant, it's very deep, and it applies to todays society as well.
I also agree with what Alycia said about the song 'Pale Horse, Pale Rider'. I forgot to read the study guide until after I was done, so while I was reading I too thought the song was about the relationship between Adam and Miranda. Maybe it has double meaning.I also agreed with her view on the importance of their relationship to the story.
When reading this short story I realized how much the American citizens gave up for the soldiers who were fighting in World War 1. The citizens also supported the military in many ways, as we do now, but in complete different ways. During WW1 the American people gave up most of their food so the military men had enough to eat in order to keep strong and fight for what they were brought there to do. Also back in the early 1900's everyone bought war bonds. These bonds were used to help support funds the military needed to fight and win the war. and without teh help from their people they probably wouln't've been able to pull it off. However, today we have a different way of showing our support and love for our military heros. Today we send letters to to soldiers thanking them for their servise and such. We also raise the flag to half staff for a man or woman who had lost their life fighting for their country. And in that we honor them. :) I must say this was a thrilling read for my fist book in honors english. I enjoyed it very much. I hope the rest are as good as this one! :D
Kerri's response to classmates:
Maria- I really enjoyed reading your response to this story. I especially liked how you picked up on the fact that when her illness ended, so did the war, and it's perhaps metaphorical reasoning. Very creative thinking.. :)
Nikki!- I also picked up on how patriotic the people were back then. They were very true to their country, and had ways of showing it that made for a difficult time in their lives. However, I really liked the main point you 'grabbed' out of the story how "life goes on, through war, sickness and love." It's a great point made for those in tough times! :)
"...as if she were closing windows and doors and fastening down curtains against a rising storm." (Page 174). This is describing the actions of Miranda while she is watching a play with Adam and their eyes meet. Adam was a soldier on leave and there was a big war going on, Miranda was well aware of all of this. It was obvious that Miranda had feelings for Adam but she knew there was a good chance that Adam would die in war. She knew they did not have much time together and they had only just met a few days earlier. It seems as though Miranda did not want to let Adam get too close to her, she wanted to keep distance as if she were "closing windows and doors..." Miranda knew that if she let Adam get close to her that she may fall in love and when he died in war it would be "...a rising storm."
"The road to death is a long march beset with all evils, and the heart fails little by little at each new terror, the bones rebel at each step, the mind sets up its own bitter resistance and to what end? The barriers sink one by one, and no covering of the eyes shuts out the landscape of disaster, nor the sight of crimes committed there." (Pages 196-197). These words of Katherine Anne Porter could be taken many different ways. This quote, to me, means that life is filled with many struggles along the way (the road to death is a long march beset with all evils), and a person often makes the wrong decision when faced with fear (the heart fails at each new terror), and continues to do what he or she knows is wrong (the bones rebel at each step), and tells his or herself to stay away from things that are good (the mind sets up its own bitter resistance). The walls that a person puts up eventually fall (the barriers sink), and that person sees everything bad that goes on in the world (no covering of the eyes shuts out the landscape of disaster), including the crimes that people committ (nor the sight of crimes committed there.)
I really liked how Maria made the connection between the end of the war and Miranda's recovery, I hadn't thought of that. It very well could be a metaphor of how the war is illness to the world.
Alycia talked about how at the end of the war Miranda said "No more war, no more plague, only the dazed silence that follows the ceasing of the heavy guns;..." which she said was sybolizing how war always ends. I was thinking the same exact thing. Including how the dead cannot come back and people will still suffer from the impact the war had. Nothing will be the same again.
The way Liberty Bonds were pressured upon the people reminds me of the Catholic Inquisition, where members of the Catholic Church pressured the people of England to convert to Catholicism. Similar methods were used to sell Liberty Bonds and to convert people during the Inquisition. In Pale Horse, Pale Rider, salesmen of Liberty Bonds or people that promoted them showed up at Miranda’s work. They reminded her daily that she is one of the few people who have not purchased a Liberty Bond, and how she needs to soon in order to help win the war. In addition, she was threatened that if she did not buy one she would lose her job. During the Inquisition many people were threatened or had things, like their occupation, taken away from them in order to make them convert. Also, throughout the Inquisition they advertised the Catholic Religion by hanging flyers and promoted it in shows or books. In Pale Horse, Pale Rider they promoted Liberty Bonds during a show. Miranda and Adam were watching the play and before the third act a guy went on stage supporting the good of Liberty Bonds and how people need to buy them; it was critical to win the war.
“For every step they took towards each other, it seemed perilous, drawing them apart instead of together, as a swimmer in spite of his most determined strokes is yet drawn slowly backward by the tide.” (page 173). This was one of the many thoughts bouncing around in Miranda’s mind before she and Adam went to see a show. Miranda does not want to love Adam because she knows that the war will end it but she cannot help herself. Miranda knows every second they got closer, their love grew stronger and more riskier, (for every step they took towards each other seemed perilous). The risk and fear was slowly going to pull them apart, (drawing them apart instead of together). The swimmer refers to Miranda and Adam’s love, the strokes refer to their growing compassion, and the tide refers to the war. Miranda knows there love is as impossible as swimming against the tide.
I really like Roxanne’s first quote she discussed. I completely agree of how they knew their time was limited and they kept themselves distance because of this. Miranda was very aware that getting close would only hurt her more in the end. To avoid this from happening she wanted to close windows and doors to her heart.
I agree with Brynn of how Miranda’s dreams were metaphorical. I really liked how she related the meadow and her loved ones in her dream to being close to “heaven” and how when she was improving in her sickness the stone, snow, and cold in her dream represented her “difficult journey back into the world of the living”.
Before I read Pale Horse, Pale Rider, I decided to read the response by Professor Mark Schorer at the back of the Katherine Ann Porter anthology. According to him, there were three major themes in Porter's writings, basic ones that are modified in an infinite amount of ways in all of literature. They were: What were we?, What are we?, and what will we be? These themes showed up repeatedly throughout the story, more so as Miranda slips into delirium while she's sick. After meeting Adam, annd then catching the Spanish influenza, the normally jaded and cynical Miranda starts to have feeling. On page 125, as embarassing as it might seem, the comment that Adam was like a healthy apple shows a lightheartedness. Though Miranda might be thawing slightly, she still had the ability to be a bitter person:"So they told me," she noted when told about the end of war altogether that WWI would bring. Miranda was a reflection of Katherine, perhaps that was why Porter later on wrote that despite his competence and health, Adam was condemned by higher powers to death. Though especially jaded with life at the end, Miranda tells more than once of her hatred of the Bond Salesman and their cowardice, that romance was only in poetry, and that their romance was never to advance. That last prediction bordered on the clairvoyant, like Porter herself. The large idea to come out of this book at the end is that life is an illusion, and that we're fooling ourselves by thinking it's enjoyab le or good. Not happy, but an opinion nonetheless.
Joey's Responses to others' Annotations: Roxanne: I really like your analysis of some of the quotations from the reading. The one I like most would have to be that "the person often makes the wrong decision when faced with fear." I think that may very well be exactly what Porter was trying to convey when she wrote those lines.
Brynn: I agree with you on that idea of her personal heaven being that. While I was reading, I said to myself,"This is where she really wants to be." I think that when she saw that little orb of light in the darkness and embraced her own will to live, that she began the rebirth process.
It is obvious that the Liberty Bonds were a huge part of this book as they not only set a tone of hardache but also represented the status-quo problem in society. Those willing and, of course, able to buy a Bond were the high class, patriotic citizens while those unable were considered outcasts. This reminded me of today’s world. The status-quo being the same: high class on top, lower classes falling categorically underneath. Replace the Liberty Bonds with, say, brand name clothes, and you have yourself a typical community. Hit towards something a little closer to home and you might even have a typical high school. The “popular” kids obviously being the high class citizens and those less fortunate being just that. This theme of status-quo, like many other themes, is very broad and generic. It is therefore able to be related to almost anything. However, I feel that Pale Horse, Pale Rider did an especially unique job of showing it.
“She thought, This is the beginning of the end of something. Something terrible is going to happen to me. I shan’t need bread and butter where I’m going. I’ll will it to Chuck, he has a venerable father to but hooch for. I hope they let him have it. Oh, Adam, I hope I see you once more before I go under with whatever is the matter with me” (Page 170). This quote could be taken a variety of ways. I can think of two in particular. When I first read it, I thought it to be a foreshadowing of a bad event, specifically Miranda’s death. The first three sentences as well as the last sentence made me believe this. She is thinking that it’s the end to something, something terrible. She’s going to a place where she won’t need everyday necessities (...shan’t need bread and butter...). She wants to see Adam one last time. Later in the book, when it was confirmed Miranda was infected with the influenza, I believed myself to be right. It was the sentence involving Chuck that threw me for a loop and made me think I might be wrong. When taking that sentence into consideration, I then thought she was merely talking about giving her job to Chuck, as he needed it more. Looking back now, I see that both variations can be considered true (minus Miranda dying). It’s amazing how much meaning can be within one paragraph. It seemed to happen a lot in this book which definitely kept me on my toes.
I really like how Holly connected the Liberty Bonds to the Catholic Inquisition. It was definitely outside the box and creative! After having the Inquisition pounded into my head during history, I can easily see how Holly could make that connection.
I agree with Maria about Miranda’s recovery and the war ending being a metaphor. The war being the sickness and peace being the antidote. I didn’t pick up on that myself but when I read that, it made so much sense!
Miranda had a lot of strange dreams that connected to things she was experiencing at the time. In the first dream at the beginning of the story she said "we must outrun Death and the Devil." Then the "stranger" was chasing her on his horse which was a pale color and he turned out to also be very pale and skeleton like. This connects to what was mentioned in the study guide about the pale horse and rider in the book of Revelation in the Bible. The horse and rider symbolized death and Miranda was living in a time of a lot of death because of the flu and the war. Death was all around her and she felt like she was constantly running from it.
On pages 189-190 Adam and Miranda were tlaking about the song. They only knew the line "Pale horse, pale rider, done take my lover away". Adam said the song went on for a long time taking away family and friends. Then Miranda said something that I thought was very interesting: "Death always leaves one singer to mourn." The flu and the war took a lot of people and left people alone and mourning. Miranda ended up being one of the singers mourning when she found out Adam died, but she was stronger than death. She accepted that a lot of people she cared about were gone and kept living keeping them alove in her heart and memory.
Miranda was a very relatable character and I could understand her feelings. This was a pretty good story.
I really like what Maria said about war being an illness to the world. That was actually shown in the story and kind of symbolized through Miranda's illness and the flu. When there is a large war everyone is affected by it just like an illness. Everyone might not get sick or be in the war zone, but everyone sees and feels the effects and the pain and suffering.
Joey talked about three major themes he read in a response: What were we? What are we? and What will we be? I thought about that for a few minutes and I'm glad he mentioned them because they do seem like major themes in this story because people change over time and discover things about themselves. This was definitely true of Miranda as the war and her relationship with Adam progressed then through her struggles financially and with the flu.
What really caught my attention when reading Pale Horse, Pale Rider was how much emphasis was put on liberty bonds. It, in my opinion, shows just how controlling the government in America can be. Everyone in America at this time made it hard for refuse a liberty bond, even though many people couldn't afford it at all. On the other hand, it also shows how much patriotism our country had during hard times like this. Citizens who could easily afford it were all for the liberty bonds. Even Miranda, though she could not afford the liberty bonds, would have more than willing to pay the money for it.
I agree with Roxanne when she talks about Adam and Miranda's relationship. "She slipped down in the chair and leaned her head against the dusty plush, closed her eyes and faced for one instant that was a lifetime the certain, the overwhelming and awful knowledge that there was nothing at all ahead for Adam and her. Nothing" (Page 171) This just shows that Miranda knows Adam will probably die while he's away at war, and she doesn't want to let herself get to close to him.
Alycia talked about how at the end of the war Miranda said "No more war, no more plague, only the dazed silence that follows the ceasing of the heavy guns;..." Disease and the war were such a large part of this story, and I agree that this phrase symbolizes how greatly a war impact people.
Renee L.'s Reply The foreshadowing of Adam dying. I wasn't surprised by the end of the story that he died of sickness, I knew his story wouldn't end well. It was especially made obvious when the author, in Miranda's perspective, described him looking out the window with an expression of an older man he'll never become. However, it helped me understand the story, how the war weighed down on Miranda, and her fear of death making her incapable of love and afraid that Adam will die. "Now there will be time for everything." Miranda means that without the war and death and fighting, she can now go on with her life, remove herself from the rut she put herself in, and finally do things she could only wish of doing. This helped me because it shoed the sudden release in Miranda's spirit how she is no longer afraid to love or love her life. She doesn't have to feel afraid anymore. She can move on from her past, her sickness, and Adam's death to live anew and find love and hope once again.
Renee's Response to Posts: Svea: I never actually thought about the dream in the beginning. I don't know why, but after I figured out that the story wasn't taking place in a farm but in some city or town, it kind of became irrelevant to me. I like how you mentioned the part about a farmer's horse having a baby in the middle of the night (because I knew that too). Maria: I thought it was really interesting how you saw her illness as a metaphor, with her sickness starting in line with the war, and ending after its over - I noticed that, too, but I didn't see it as a metaphor like you did. I just thought it was a coincidence. Or maybe irony. And seeing it as a deep poem...very moving once you really think deep about it.
One of the very first things I did when I started reading this story was try and pin point the character. I wanted to really understand who Miranda was as a person. As I read through the story I noted things she did and wrote down describing terms in the margins of the page. I would then take mental notes throughout the story as to when she showed these traits. The first few adjectives I used to describe her came when the story revealed that she was a journalist or that she worked for a newspaper. So, automatically I thought; Curious, determined, opinioinated, intellectually advanced and economically challenged. I chose these terms because this is how I know journalists in the modern world. A little more into the story I added honest and calm to the list. Miranda proved that she was each and every one of these terms in many places throughout the story and sometimes more than once. She is opinionated because she stands strongly against the war. She is determined to stay against the war. She is at an economic disadvantage because she can't pay for the Liberty Bond. She is calm because she listens to people say crude things to/or around her and she doesn't have an outburst in rage. She is honest because if she is confronted with a question she answers with the truth. "Why do you not purchase a Liberty Bond." "I simply can't afford it." She is intellectually advanced because she does write for a newspaper and cover events and that is not as easy as most would think. And she does prove to be curious in searching for her true feelings for Adam and what she wants for the two of them.
Another on going annotation I had was discovering the time period of the book. Even though I knew that this book was our Post-Modernism piece I wanted to see how well the author did at revealing the time period. So, the first hint for me was the mention that "two pairs of legs, dangling on either side of her typewriter." BINGO! Typewritter this is definately 20th century because modern day people use computers and 19th century wouldn't have the technology or the money to produce such a product. Next at the mention of a war. So I knew that both World Wars happened in the 20th century. It must be one of the two. The next hint that ended up being the end-all for my time period search was when Miranda says that she thinks she has the Influenza. So the only real influenza I knew of in the states was the Spanish Influenza (Twilight fans-you know it killed Edward). So, I looked up the Spanish Influenza and found "1918 flu pandemic, spread widely across the world." JACKPOT. Considering World War I began in 1914 and ended towards the end of 1918, I now knew when the story was set.
**CORRECTION TO MY PREVIOUS POST** Pale Horse, Pale Rider is not our Post-Modernism piece it is our Modernism and I know that :P
RESPONSE TO PEERS:
I love how Svea analyzed the dream that appeared in the begining of the story. I too was trying to figure out what caused the author to use that as an opening when it really seemed to have to relation to the story. I like that Svea analyzed and concluded that the dream might symbolize her running from death. Great thinking!
I also really liked what Brynn said about Miranda's final dream and how the peaceful medow might symoblize a better place that she is soon to enter. I thought that was really insightful and I was kind of thinking the same thing. It also gives the reader a 'pretty' image which is nice because the book gives off such a gloomy feel.
From the beginning you could tell that Adam's character was going to die. There wasn't really anything to cause you to hope for otherwise. He was smart, good looking, healthy and a little naive. He was definetly loveable which gave one the ability to feel for Miranda's character who was in love and if only.. You can definetly feel that this is a weight on her. The if only.
I appreciated the irony in that often the characters in the story would say things like the war to end all wars because I know that there will be another war. This coupled with Miranda's cynicism and her disdain for the war made these bits seem almost comical.
I agree with Hillary in that the dreams were almost as important as Mirandas view point. They really tell you a lot about Miranda and give the story a sense of depth that you wouldn't have otherwise.
What Nikki said about the patriotism of people during the war I think also shows how people unify when there is a tragedy. I think that living beings are special in that we can do that.
30 comments:
Svea's reply
In the beginning, the whole dream about the horses reminded me of where the term "nightmare" came from. When a farmer's horse had a baby in the midde of the night they were called nightmares and they were dreaded. I wonder if there's any corralation to the nightmares she was having about the horse and the term nightmare. It seemed like in the dream she was trying to outrun death, and her stay in the hospital was one big nightmare, with her in and out on conciousness. The author did a great job showing the patriotism of the people during this time. Just that one scene with the man and Miranda when they were pushing her to buy the liberty bonds said a lot.
At first I thought that this WAS WW11, but when the mystery disease was revealed to be influenza I guess it's during WW1. During the spanish influenza outbreak.
One last thing this book reminds me of is my post-modern text, which deals a lot with happiness and knowing when your happy. Miranda faces this problem, not knowing if she's truly happy or not.
Maria's annotation:
Miranda faces a lot of alienation and criticism for her diverse opinions about the war. When the person toward the end reads the poem, her and Adam see it as an oposing attack. Adam is her friend who is always on her side.
Mr.Gibbons was quite the martinet with how he expressed his opinions on her writtings. He criticised even the most trivial grammatical error.He probably opposed her opinions and controling her work was how he took out that feeling.
I really thought when Miranda got ill that it was a metaphor for when the war would go on and off and finally end. The war ended when her illness recovered. The coincidence brought out the metaphorical perception.
Maybe war is illness to the world and its people and peace is good health. This story makes the most schmaltz metaphors.Very deep and sentimental is the author's philosophy. The story is almost like one of those deep poems that everyone feels so strongly about.
I especially liked how this was a classic that takes place in America. Most classic literature is from England, or European countiries because of some perpetuation from Shakespeare.
Overall, a very enthrolling short story.
Alycia's Annotaion:
I like how Svea made the connection between the nightmare and Miranda's nightmare, I was thinking the same thing. I also guessed that the setting was placed during World War One because of the reference to "The War to End War" which refers to WWI. The way Miranda slips in and out of dream state definately makes it confusing, and sometimes I would have to go back and re-read a few pages to remember which state we were in. The title 'Pale Horse, Pale Rider' was referred to between Miranda and Adam as a song that the negroes would sing in the oil field, or while picking cotton. I know in the study guide it says that this is a reference to revelations, but I wonder if it might be more than that. The lyrics to the song, "Pale Horse, Pale Rider, 'done take my lover away!" might symbolize the love between Miranda and Adam, and how death (the pale rider) takes it away from them when Adam dies of Influenza. I find their relationship very important in the story.
At the end of the story Miranda says "No more war, no more plague, only the dazed silence that follows the ceasing of the heavy guns;..." This seems to be symbolizing how war always ends, but no one ever fully recovers from it's impact. No one can ever come back from the dead after war. I think alot of what this story is about is the effects of war and disease and death and how it can never be fully forgotten.
During Miranda's relapse, or that's what it appears to be, when she is having visions of this beautiful beach and these rolling waves I was kind of wondering what Porter was trying to show. It seems that Porter is showing how at peace Miranda is as she is nearly taken by death. Miranda 'desires nothing' and 'here it is always morning'. Then she is awaken and brought back to the pain of war and epidemic. It seems as if Miranda would rather face death then face the tragidies of war.
Very good story, one I would consider reading again:)
Hillary's Annotation:
I agree with what Maria said about the war being an illness to the world and how it seems like a deep poem. At first it doesn't seem very deep but if you really read it you see just how deep it goes.
Also what Svea said about the nightmares is very interesting but I agree with what she said about the patriotism and how it really shines through. With the liberty bonds and the young soldiers wanting to go to war, also the other little things like wearing shoddy.
I thought this was a very interesting story, I like how Porter told the story half from Miranda's point of view and half from her dreams. Her dreams proved to be just as important to the story. However I did find it a little odd that once Miranda began to recover that the war stopped. But I suppose like Maria said it was like a metaphor showing that all would get better.
With all the problems of the war and the influenza outbreak it keeps the reader hooked seeing how Miranda will deal. I thought she handled herself well with the people shoving bonds at her and criticizing her work.
Overall I really liked Pale Horse, Pale Rider and wouldn't mind reading more like it.
Maria's response to the annotations:
Alycia did an excelling job at connecting simple details to form a more profound and deep message. She symbolised the pale rider as death. The song lyrics "done take my lover away", if you think real closely show how deep Miranda and Adam felt about each other.
I liked how Hillary summed up her annotations by describing how the theme can also be based from not only the love between Miranda nad Adam, or the war and illness, but the struggles and criticism Miranda faces as a writer and how she deals with them. Hillary discovered another theme idea that the author was probably trying to perceive.
Nikki’s Annotations:
Svea’s connection about Miranda’s nightmares was really interesting, the dream made more sense to me after that. Also what Maria said about war being an illness and how it affects the health of people, it rang very true to me and even now, in the war on terror it’s true.
I like how Porter showed how patriotic people were, the young men going to war and the older men pushing for war bonds and talking about going to war. The women showed their patriotism by volunteering in the hospital and going to work outside of the home for the first time. The main point that I grabbed when I read this story was that life goes on, even through war, sickness and love. After the war had ended and Miranda was recovering from the Spanish Influenza she found out that Adam had died from the pandemic. Still, Miranda had to pick up the pieces of her life and so did everyone when the war ended and the pandemic ceased.
Overall, this story surprised me, or I surprised myself I guess because I really did enjoy reading it more than I thought I would.
Alycia's reply's to classmates posts...
As I said in my post earlier, I like how Svea connected Miranda's nightmares to the term nightmare and the horses. We all know Svea knows her mythology and other random tidbits of information. I also agree with how she mentioned that the author does an amazing job at showing the patriotism of the characters through how they hound Miranda about buying a bond.
Maria mentioned about how Miranda faces "alienation" and "critizism" about how she feels about war. The author shows through scenerios like, Miranda not buying a bond, or how she talks badly about the war and how she doesn't support it, to show Miranda's "diverse opinions" about the war, as Maria said in her post. I think this is a great topic to bring up because it shows the authors characterization throughout the story. Bravo Maria!
Brynn's annotations:
The issue of Liberty bonds in this story reminded me of a story that I read awhile ago. I Believe that it was called 'Hattie Big Sky' although i don't remember the author. In that story Hattie is a Pioneer in Montana, and like most pioneers a little hard on money. Like Miranda she was pressured to buy a Liberty Bond and was accused of being unpatriotic when she put it off because she couldn't afford it. So many bonds and funds were circulating at that time that many Americans were giving huge chunks of their salary to the war and war efforts, and many were left with barely any extra money. The American government needed money and it was an easy way for them to gain efficient funds so bonds were the answer. Bonds may have been the answer for the government but they were not the answer for society, people who didn't buy bonds were discriminated against and were seen as unpatriotic. Some people even saw them as equal to the Huns. Unfortunately this created what I call a fake Patriot. Not fake as in a person who feels nothing for their country, but fake as not having the best intentions. People who are doing their 'duty' to their 'country' by haggling others to give up money that they simply cannot. I feel that a true patriot would realize that these people are part of the country that they so 'love', and that there are more ways to show love for ones country than by dishing out money to support a war. The the study guide did say that the author had a direct relation to this story and that it was written about some of her experiences during the war; it makes me wonder if she also had trouble with Liberty Bonds.
In this story it also seemed as if Miranda's dreams were metaphorical. In her last 'dream' under the direct influence of the influenza I think that it had a very different and special meaning. I think that her calm perfect meadow where it was always morning and she was surrounded by all of those she loved and cared for represented her heaven. And that at that point that her care takers were losing her to death. I also think that the painful place full of stone, cold , and snow, signified her difficult journey back into the world of the living. Recognizing this allowed me to understand her reactions and feelings later in the book. It also gave more meaning to the way Miranda moved on with her life when she was ready to leave the hospital and go back to her life.
Comments on other students annotations:
I think that what Maria said about Miranda's illness and the War being related and intertwined is so completely true. I didn't really see it when I read the book, but after I read her post I realized the coincidence, and there are no such thing as coincidences. I also thought that her comparison of war to illness was brilliant, it's very deep, and it applies to todays society as well.
I also agree with what Alycia said about the song 'Pale Horse, Pale Rider'. I forgot to read the study guide until after I was done, so while I was reading I too thought the song was about the relationship between Adam and Miranda. Maybe it has double meaning.I also agreed with her view on the importance of their relationship to the story.
Kerri's reply to annotations:
When reading this short story I realized how much the American citizens gave up for the soldiers who were fighting in World War 1. The citizens also supported the military in many ways, as we do now, but in complete different ways. During WW1 the American people gave up most of their food so the military men had enough to eat in order to keep strong and fight for what they were brought there to do. Also back in the early 1900's everyone bought war bonds. These bonds were used to help support funds the military needed to fight and win the war. and without teh help from their people they probably wouln't've been able to pull it off.
However, today we have a different way of showing our support and love for our military heros. Today we send letters to to soldiers thanking them for their servise and such. We also raise the flag to half staff for a man or woman who had lost their life fighting for their country. And in that we honor them. :)
I must say this was a thrilling read for my fist book in honors english. I enjoyed it very much. I hope the rest are as good as this one! :D
Kerri's response to classmates:
Maria- I really enjoyed reading your response to this story. I especially liked how you picked up on the fact that when her illness ended, so did the war, and it's perhaps metaphorical reasoning. Very creative thinking.. :)
Nikki!- I also picked up on how patriotic the people were back then. They were very true to their country, and had ways of showing it that made for a difficult time in their lives. However, I really liked the main point you 'grabbed' out of the story how "life goes on, through war, sickness and love." It's a great point made for those in tough times! :)
"...as if she were closing windows and doors and fastening down curtains against a rising storm." (Page 174). This is describing the actions of Miranda while she is watching a play with Adam and their eyes meet. Adam was a soldier on leave and there was a big war going on, Miranda was well aware of all of this. It was obvious that Miranda had feelings for Adam but she knew there was a good chance that Adam would die in war. She knew they did not have much time together and they had only just met a few days earlier. It seems as though Miranda did not want to let Adam get too close to her, she wanted to keep distance as if she were "closing windows and doors..." Miranda knew that if she let Adam get close to her that she may fall in love and when he died in war it would be "...a rising storm."
"The road to death is a long march beset with all evils, and the heart fails little by little at each new terror, the bones rebel at each step, the mind sets up its own bitter resistance and to what end? The barriers sink one by one, and no covering of the eyes shuts out the landscape of disaster, nor the sight of crimes committed there." (Pages 196-197). These words of Katherine Anne Porter could be taken many different ways. This quote, to me, means that life is filled with many struggles along the way (the road to death is a long march beset with all evils), and a person often makes the wrong decision when faced with fear (the heart fails at each new terror), and continues to do what he or she knows is wrong (the bones rebel at each step), and tells his or herself to stay away from things that are good (the mind sets up its own bitter resistance). The walls that a person puts up eventually fall (the barriers sink), and that person sees everything bad that goes on in the world (no covering of the eyes shuts out the landscape of disaster), including the crimes that people committ (nor the sight of crimes committed there.)
I really liked how Maria made the connection between the end of the war and Miranda's recovery, I hadn't thought of that. It very well could be a metaphor of how the war is illness to the world.
Alycia talked about how at the end of the war Miranda said "No more war, no more plague, only the dazed silence that follows the ceasing of the heavy guns;..." which she said was sybolizing how war always ends. I was thinking the same exact thing. Including how the dead cannot come back and people will still suffer from the impact the war had. Nothing will be the same again.
The way Liberty Bonds were pressured upon the people reminds me of the Catholic Inquisition, where members of the Catholic Church pressured the people of England to convert to Catholicism. Similar methods were used to sell Liberty Bonds and to convert people during the Inquisition. In Pale Horse, Pale Rider, salesmen of Liberty Bonds or people that promoted them showed up at Miranda’s work. They reminded her daily that she is one of the few people who have not purchased a Liberty Bond, and how she needs to soon in order to help win the war. In addition, she was threatened that if she did not buy one she would lose her job. During the Inquisition many people were threatened or had things, like their occupation, taken away from them in order to make them convert. Also, throughout the Inquisition they advertised the Catholic Religion by hanging flyers and promoted it in shows or books. In Pale Horse, Pale Rider they promoted Liberty Bonds during a show. Miranda and Adam were watching the play and before the third act a guy went on stage supporting the good of Liberty Bonds and how people need to buy them; it was critical to win the war.
“For every step they took towards each other, it seemed perilous, drawing them apart instead of together, as a swimmer in spite of his most determined strokes is yet drawn slowly backward by the tide.” (page 173). This was one of the many thoughts bouncing around in Miranda’s mind before she and Adam went to see a show. Miranda does not want to love Adam because she knows that the war will end it but she cannot help herself. Miranda knows every second they got closer, their love grew stronger and more riskier, (for every step they took towards each other seemed perilous). The risk and fear was slowly going to pull them apart, (drawing them apart instead of together). The swimmer refers to Miranda and Adam’s love, the strokes refer to their growing compassion, and the tide refers to the war. Miranda knows there love is as impossible as swimming against the tide.
I really like Roxanne’s first quote she discussed. I completely agree of how they knew their time was limited and they kept themselves distance because of this. Miranda was very aware that getting close would only hurt her more in the end. To avoid this from happening she wanted to close windows and doors to her heart.
I agree with Brynn of how Miranda’s dreams were metaphorical. I really liked how she related the meadow and her loved ones in her dream to being close to “heaven” and how when she was improving in her sickness the stone, snow, and cold in her dream represented her “difficult journey back into the world of the living”.
Before I read Pale Horse, Pale Rider, I decided to read the response by Professor Mark Schorer at the back of the Katherine Ann Porter anthology. According to him, there were three major themes in Porter's writings, basic ones that are modified in an infinite amount of ways in all of literature. They were: What were we?, What are we?, and what will we be?
These themes showed up repeatedly throughout the story, more so as Miranda slips into delirium while she's sick. After meeting Adam, annd then catching the Spanish influenza, the normally jaded and cynical Miranda starts to have feeling. On page 125, as embarassing as it might seem, the comment that Adam was like a healthy apple shows a lightheartedness. Though Miranda might be thawing slightly, she still had the ability to be a bitter person:"So they told me," she noted when told about the end of war altogether that WWI would bring. Miranda was a reflection of Katherine, perhaps that was why Porter later on wrote that despite his competence and health, Adam was condemned by higher powers to death. Though especially jaded with life at the end, Miranda tells more than once of her hatred of the Bond Salesman and their cowardice, that romance was only in poetry, and that their romance was never to advance. That last prediction bordered on the clairvoyant, like Porter herself.
The large idea to come out of this book at the end is that life is an illusion, and that we're fooling ourselves by thinking it's enjoyab le or good. Not happy, but an opinion nonetheless.
Joey's Responses to others' Annotations:
Roxanne: I really like your analysis of some of the quotations from the reading. The one I like most would have to be that "the person often makes the wrong decision when faced with fear." I think that may very well be exactly what Porter was trying to convey when she wrote those lines.
Brynn: I agree with you on that idea of her personal heaven being that. While I was reading, I said to myself,"This is where she really wants to be." I think that when she saw that little orb of light in the darkness and embraced her own will to live, that she began the rebirth process.
It is obvious that the Liberty Bonds were a huge part of this book as they not only set a tone of hardache but also represented the status-quo problem in society. Those willing and, of course, able to buy a Bond were the high class, patriotic citizens while those unable were considered outcasts. This reminded me of today’s world. The status-quo being the same: high class on top, lower classes falling categorically underneath. Replace the Liberty Bonds with, say, brand name clothes, and you have yourself a typical community. Hit towards something a little closer to home and you might even have a typical high school. The “popular” kids obviously being the high class citizens and those less fortunate being just that. This theme of status-quo, like many other themes, is very broad and generic. It is therefore able to be related to almost anything. However, I feel that Pale Horse, Pale Rider did an especially unique job of showing it.
“She thought, This is the beginning of the end of something. Something terrible is going to happen to me. I shan’t need bread and butter where I’m going. I’ll will it to Chuck, he has a venerable father to but hooch for. I hope they let him have it. Oh, Adam, I hope I see you once more before I go under with whatever is the matter with me” (Page 170). This quote could be taken a variety of ways. I can think of two in particular. When I first read it, I thought it to be a foreshadowing of a bad event, specifically Miranda’s death. The first three sentences as well as the last sentence made me believe this. She is thinking that it’s the end to something, something terrible. She’s going to a place where she won’t need everyday necessities (...shan’t need bread and butter...). She wants to see Adam one last time. Later in the book, when it was confirmed Miranda was infected with the influenza, I believed myself to be right. It was the sentence involving Chuck that threw me for a loop and made me think I might be wrong. When taking that sentence into consideration, I then thought she was merely talking about giving her job to Chuck, as he needed it more. Looking back now, I see that both variations can be considered true (minus Miranda dying). It’s amazing how much meaning can be within one paragraph. It seemed to happen a lot in this book which definitely kept me on my toes.
I really like how Holly connected the Liberty Bonds to the Catholic Inquisition. It was definitely outside the box and creative! After having the Inquisition pounded into my head during history, I can easily see how Holly could make that connection.
I agree with Maria about Miranda’s recovery and the war ending being a metaphor. The war being the sickness and peace being the antidote. I didn’t pick up on that myself but when I read that, it made so much sense!
Amy's Annotation Paragraphs:
Miranda had a lot of strange dreams that connected to things she was experiencing at the time. In the first dream at the beginning of the story she said "we must outrun Death and the Devil." Then the "stranger" was chasing her on his horse which was a pale color and he turned out to also be very pale and skeleton like. This connects to what was mentioned in the study guide about the pale horse and rider in the book of Revelation in the Bible. The horse and rider symbolized death and Miranda was living in a time of a lot of death because of the flu and the war. Death was all around her and she felt like she was constantly running from it.
On pages 189-190 Adam and Miranda were tlaking about the song. They only knew the line "Pale horse, pale rider, done take my lover away". Adam said the song went on for a long time taking away family and friends. Then Miranda said something that I thought was very interesting: "Death always leaves one singer to mourn." The flu and the war took a lot of people and left people alone and mourning. Miranda ended up being one of the singers mourning when she found out Adam died, but she was stronger than death. She accepted that a lot of people she cared about were gone and kept living keeping them alove in her heart and memory.
Miranda was a very relatable character and I could understand her feelings. This was a pretty good story.
Amy's response to other's annotations:
I really like what Maria said about war being an illness to the world. That was actually shown in the story and kind of symbolized through Miranda's illness and the flu. When there is a large war everyone is affected by it just like an illness. Everyone might not get sick or be in the war zone, but everyone sees and feels the effects and the pain and suffering.
Joey talked about three major themes he read in a response: What were we? What are we? and What will we be? I thought about that for a few minutes and I'm glad he mentioned them because they do seem like major themes in this story because people change over time and discover things about themselves. This was definitely true of Miranda as the war and her relationship with Adam progressed then through her struggles financially and with the flu.
What really caught my attention when reading Pale Horse, Pale Rider was how much emphasis was put on liberty bonds. It, in my opinion, shows just how controlling the government in America can be. Everyone in America at this time made it hard for refuse a liberty bond, even though many people couldn't afford it at all. On the other hand, it also shows how much patriotism our country had during hard times like this. Citizens who could easily afford it were all for the liberty bonds. Even Miranda, though she could not afford the liberty bonds, would have more than willing to pay the money for it.
I agree with Roxanne when she talks about Adam and Miranda's relationship. "She slipped down in the chair and leaned her head against the dusty plush, closed her eyes and faced for one instant that was a lifetime the certain, the overwhelming and awful knowledge that there was nothing at all ahead for Adam and her. Nothing" (Page 171) This just shows that Miranda knows Adam will probably die while he's away at war, and she doesn't want to let herself get to close to him.
Alycia talked about how at the end of the war Miranda said "No more war, no more plague, only the dazed silence that follows the ceasing of the heavy guns;..." Disease and the war were such a large part of this story, and I agree that this phrase symbolizes how greatly a war impact people.
Renee L.'s Reply
The foreshadowing of Adam dying. I wasn't surprised by the end of the story that he died of sickness, I knew his story wouldn't end well. It was especially made obvious when the author, in Miranda's perspective, described him looking out the window with an expression of an older man he'll never become. However, it helped me understand the story, how the war weighed down on Miranda, and her fear of death making her incapable of love and afraid that Adam will die.
"Now there will be time for everything." Miranda means that without the war and death and fighting, she can now go on with her life, remove herself from the rut she put herself in, and finally do things she could only wish of doing. This helped me because it shoed the sudden release in Miranda's spirit how she is no longer afraid to love or love her life. She doesn't have to feel afraid anymore. She can move on from her past, her sickness, and Adam's death to live anew and find love and hope once again.
Renee's Response to Posts:
Svea: I never actually thought about the dream in the beginning. I don't know why, but after I figured out that the story wasn't taking place in a farm but in some city or town, it kind of became irrelevant to me. I like how you mentioned the part about a farmer's horse having a baby in the middle of the night (because I knew that too).
Maria:
I thought it was really interesting how you saw her illness as a metaphor, with her sickness starting in line with the war, and ending after its over - I noticed that, too, but I didn't see it as a metaphor like you did. I just thought it was a coincidence. Or maybe irony. And seeing it as a deep poem...very moving once you really think deep about it.
One of the very first things I did when I started reading this story was try and pin point the character. I wanted to really understand who Miranda was as a person. As I read through the story I noted things she did and wrote down describing terms in the margins of the page. I would then take mental notes throughout the story as to when she showed these traits. The first few adjectives I used to describe her came when the story revealed that she was a journalist or that she worked for a newspaper. So, automatically I thought; Curious, determined, opinioinated, intellectually advanced and economically challenged. I chose these terms because this is how I know journalists in the modern world. A little more into the story I added honest and calm to the list. Miranda proved that she was each and every one of these terms in many places throughout the story and sometimes more than once. She is opinionated because she stands strongly against the war. She is determined to stay against the war. She is at an economic disadvantage because she can't pay for the Liberty Bond. She is calm because she listens to people say crude things to/or around her and she doesn't have an outburst in rage. She is honest because if she is confronted with a question she answers with the truth. "Why do you not purchase a Liberty Bond." "I simply can't afford it." She is intellectually advanced because she does write for a newspaper and cover events and that is not as easy as most would think. And she does prove to be curious in searching for her true feelings for Adam and what she wants for the two of them.
Another on going annotation I had was discovering the time period of the book. Even though I knew that this book was our Post-Modernism piece I wanted to see how well the author did at revealing the time period. So, the first hint for me was the mention that "two pairs of legs, dangling on either side of her typewriter." BINGO! Typewritter this is definately 20th century because modern day people use computers and 19th century wouldn't have the technology or the money to produce such a product. Next at the mention of a war. So I knew that both World Wars happened in the 20th century. It must be one of the two. The next hint that ended up being the end-all for my time period search was when Miranda says that she thinks she has the Influenza. So the only real influenza I knew of in the states was the Spanish Influenza (Twilight fans-you know it killed Edward). So, I looked up the Spanish Influenza and found "1918 flu pandemic, spread widely across the world." JACKPOT. Considering World War I began in 1914 and ended towards the end of 1918, I now knew when the story was set.
**CORRECTION TO MY PREVIOUS POST**
Pale Horse, Pale Rider is not our Post-Modernism piece it is our Modernism and I know that :P
RESPONSE TO PEERS:
I love how Svea analyzed the dream that appeared in the begining of the story. I too was trying to figure out what caused the author to use that as an opening when it really seemed to have to relation to the story. I like that Svea analyzed and concluded that the dream might symbolize her running from death. Great thinking!
I also really liked what Brynn said about Miranda's final dream and how the peaceful medow might symoblize a better place that she is soon to enter. I thought that was really insightful and I was kind of thinking the same thing. It also gives the reader a 'pretty' image which is nice because the book gives off such a gloomy feel.
Ashley Black's reply
From the beginning you could tell that Adam's character was going to die. There wasn't really anything to cause you to hope for otherwise. He was smart, good looking, healthy and a little naive. He was definetly loveable which gave one the ability to feel for Miranda's character who was in love and if only.. You can definetly feel that this is a weight on her. The if only.
I appreciated the irony in that often the characters in the story would say things like the war to end all wars because I know that there will be another war. This coupled with Miranda's cynicism and her disdain for the war made these bits seem almost comical.
I agree with Hillary in that the dreams were almost as important as Mirandas view point. They really tell you a lot about Miranda and give the story a sense of depth that you wouldn't have otherwise.
What Nikki said about the patriotism of people during the war I think also shows how people unify when there is a tragedy. I think that living beings are special in that we can do that.
http://www.kidsfront.com/ one of the popular site to study online
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